The Engineering Council’s recent survey of registered engineers showed that median annual total earnings in 2010 were £55k for CEngs, £43k for IEngs and £37k for EngTechs. Are these sorts of pay levels proof that engineers are now starting to receive the remuneration they deserve?
Engineers are the wealth makers in any economy. Pays levels have historically been poor and continue to lag other ‘service’ professions - financiers, lawyers, medics. Engineering demands a wide high standard of academic and vocational ability – Engineers need a serious injection of societal gravitas by being paid their true worth!
Barry Durrant, Harpenden, Hertfordshire
As a Fellow of 10 years and in a senior engineering position with a world leading provider of power systems, I would love to be earning the median for CEng!
Roger Higgins, Derby
The salaries mentioned in the survey still indicate that the words “Would the Engineer please move his Porsche” will be rarely heard at events. It is still clear that this society, although unable to move without the work of Engineers, values their work less than that of Accountants/Lawyers/Insurance salesmen etc.
If Engineers were as unprofessional as the money men have been shown to be then bridges would be constantly falling, planes crashing, buildings tumbling and so on.
Ian Morris, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
40 years in the IMechE and the median has usually surprised me, in that I've often been a lot below and rarely a little above. I don't understand the relationship between median earnings and deserved remuneration and will just have to remain happy that I'm in a profession I enjoy.
Jim Hogg, Sheffield
A person can be very happy with their salary, until they hear what their peers are getting so statistics like these can be unsettling. It is best to remember that there are always people worse off than you – so be thankful.
Clive Newell, Belfast, County Antrim
We hear there is, or is going to be, a shortage of good quality engineers. Certainly from recent graduate interviews I can believe it is true. Is this what is driving the figures up? Hang on, I'll just flick to the job pages at the back for a reality check!
Gary Lock, Leatherhead, Surrey
A quick look around some recruitment websites tells us that in relation to other professions, we are still behind.
Many lower qualified contract engineers without Institution membership will take home more than a CEng on median salary.
Most Engineers have more than enough mathematical skill to be a Maths teacher (Advertised at up to £60K with generous holidays).
Andrew Taylor, Nuneaton, Warwickshire
Ah, the old 'are engineers paid enough' discussion comes back again! What these figures don't show is how many of the engineers mentioned are actually in engineering jobs, one rather hopes that most are - but no evidence to back that up. For those who are in engineering posts how many are delivering engineering solutions and how many are managing people? Anyway, the indications are that we could be getting something right at last and maybe the profession will be more attractive to students.
Graham Hughes, Cirencester, Gloucestershire
There is so much variety (and inequality) in salaries that I find it meaningless to talk about “remuneration they deserve”. Nurses seem to “deserve” more than most but they do not get it.
In any case the market in engineers seems to be rather inelastic. If engineers were to be more mobile and flexible (like accountants), demanding the pay that we believe we deserve from potential employers (we would need to have confidence in our own worth of course), we might see what our real value is.
I fear, however, that some might be disappointed to discover their true worth. We could alternatively be satisfied with earnings far above the national average.
Jeff Bulled, Lidlington, Bedfordshire
A median is described as the numeric value separating the higher half of a sample, a population, or a probability distribution, from the lower half. The median can be used as a measure of location when a distribution is skewed, when end values are not known, or when one requires reduced importance to be attached to outliers. I’d like a bit more information on range, population size and mean before I believe the figures. I’m an outlier!
Alison Owen, Leeds
The salaries you have published seem very high to me, and if they are the norm, then this is good news. I believe with the inward investment in the auto sector, now starting to regain pace, there will be further salary inflation for good engineers too.
Paul Markwick, Wellesbourne, Warwickshire
Most of my colleagues’ wives who work in HR, Banking, Media and Local Government earn more than their Engineer husbands - How significant is this?
Alan J Cook, Braintree, Essex
The sums of money added up together probably aren’t even close to the average bonus received by an investment banker. Need I say any more?
Chris S Harding, Aldershot
These figures show some movement in the right direction, but, when you consider how much lawyers, accountants, bankers and GPs are paid, CEngs’ median annual earnings should be in the range £80-100k, IEngs £60-70k and EngTechs £40-50k. We still undervalue our engineers; no wonder so many of our industries struggle.
David Odling, Altrincham, Cheshire
I don’t suppose that anyone ever feels that what they are paid is what they deserve but at least it shows that remuneration levels are moving in the right direction.
Peter Howells, Tamworth, Staffordshire
Engineers are still the poor relations relative to many other professional institutions. That said earnings are now moving in the right direction but are still shy of the mark relative to other EU countries.
Herman Ruijsenaars, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
Engineers save more lives than doctors (think about it!) but still earn significantly less than them and thus are still undervalued by the general public. It’s a perennial problem and high salaries in the non-engineering sectors (banking etc) are still drawing off a lot of good quality engineering graduates. However, it’s also about passion for the profession and money isn’t everything.
Stu Ellins, Cosham, Portsmouth, Hampshire
"Basic salaries" devoid of bonuses etc and then compared to other professionals e.g. accountants, architects, would in my opinion be of more use, as would a comparison between public and private sector. Often professional engineers end up doing a large portion of their work in areas such as management and this dilutes pay comparisons even more. As to whether they deserve the level of earnings they receive is as in beauty, in the eye of the beholder i.e. who is paying!
Paul Harper, Glen Vine, Isle of Man
If these are the median figures, the M.D. is going to have a long queue waiting to see him.
H R Barker, Anlaby, Hull
Compare to people in other professions with similar levels of experience:
So take a C.Eng - would that be equivalent to a practising GP perhaps or a dentist? I think you'll find that £55k is a bit on the low side for them.
Now do the same for IEng & EngTech. I don't have the numbers but I would be very interested to see the comparisons.
So what I'm really saying is - try to gather data. You could consider a parametric comparison between jobs such as years of experience, time spent in education, responsibility levels (financial, peoples lives, development of staff, etc, etc). Good luck!
David Tighe, Backwell, Bristol
“Receive the remuneration they deserve” can be taken two ways! The survey does not show that engineers are being better paid. Those who fail to respond are the more interesting. Either disappointed in their subsistence level of pay (most probably the majority of non-respondents) or extremely well paid (well, I’d shout about that if I were!)
Robin Allen, Weston-on-the-green, Oxfordshire
I am not quite sure what the EC salary survey findings really mean.
Maybe it's a bit like saying I'm 5 ft 2" tall and a national survey reveals that the average height is now 5 ft 10" tall.
Am I getting any taller or smaller as a result of this survey?
Ken Hume, Basingstoke
Engineers are still lagging behind other professions that require similar qualifications, responsibility and experience. I worked for a US owned company where they rewarded technical expertise as well as management expertise. There were parallel grades for highly specialised technical and managerial positions. We still need to get away from the situation where to earn good money you need to become a people manager.
Peter Edwards, Kingsfold, West Sussex
Each time the salary survey results are published, I wonder how such seemingly inflated figures are generated. Do respondents deliberately add the odd £10k in the hope that their employer will see the median and raise their salary? And just how representative can these results be when, out of the 235,000 engineers registered with the Engineering Council, only 4% (10,000) were sent forms and what seems to me to be a statistically meaningless 1.17% (2755) responded?
John Saunders, Rosemarkie, Ross Shire
The EC figures suggest that salaries in engineering have improved over recent years and hopefully this will be a trend in the future as engineers become more valued. Indications from the Coalition Government are good in this respect, in that it wishes to see the UK earn its way out of recession through export-led sales. Salaries would improve further if we could tie insurance liability to the need to have suitably qualified engineers in key positions in a company. For example, a technical or engineering director should not be able to hold such a position unless chartered; the same should apply in the public sector.
Nick Schulkins, Winchester, Hants
Hopefully the shortage of engineers coming into the profession will create sufficient demand to push earnings upward.
Trevor Sansom, Salisbury, Wiltshire
I don't think this proves anything!!
This will only be remedied by the education of the population to recognise the Engineers are the source of ALL their wealth, health, mobility, comfort, etc. Rather than the mechanic that repairs (or rather doesn't repair but replaces) their washing machine - which was designed by Engineers; made in a factory designed, filled, operated by Engineers; carried to them in a transport vehicle similarly designed by Engineers; over roads also designed by Engineers; and they bought from a building that would not exist except for Engineers.
Money, per se, is NOT a substitute for the recognition. And only true recognition will bring the "remuneration that Engineers deserve".
Matthew Waterhouse, Tarporley, Cheshire
And the medians for doctors, accountants and lawyers are?
Bob Andrews, Quorn, Loughborough
Compared to doctors, lawyers, and accountants, the earnings for engineers do not reflect their contribution to the quality of life in general. However, we are rarely used directly by the general public. Being pragmatic, the potential is now there for good engineers to be financially rewarded for their capability.
Tony Kenyon, Newport Pagnell, Bucks
For the Engineering Council to just state that the 'median' salary values for CEng, IEng and EngTech is very misleading as the survey is conducted right across the membership spectrum for the three membership grades. I feel that the EC should publish the full survey and clarify to the readers exactly how they arrived at the quoted median salaries. This information would be better received as the data as it stands implies that for the respective membership grades that Engineers are very well paid. This is not the case.
In addition to their findings - when/how was the survey carried out as I have not (and there must be others) contributed to the salary survey?
D M Thomas, Middlewich, Cheshire
"A quick look at the employment opportunities in the back pages of PE does not tend to support the survey results. You can also have some fun with www.mysalary.co.uk. However, we are Engineers because the job is fun. A reward that is in line with the education, training and responsibility that makes an engineer is still an aspiration.
Paul Cullen, Llanelli, Carmarthenshire
Statistics of course can sometimes even be used to illustrate the truth - but not on this occasion. I'm sure that the median annual total earnings in 2010 for Chartered Engineers is £55k, but to give a more complete picture the mode and the mean annual total earnings should be published in the same sentence. Median is skewed by a single large value making it unrepresentative. Most chartered engineers will earn less than the median.
Martin Kerr, Barnstaple, Devon
Engineers are on average being paid £55k – not any of those that I know!
Paul Stone, Harborne, Birmingham
Statistics, statistics, statistics!!! Sadly, it doesn’t provide proof because the median of the range rather than the mean has been used. If 9 CEngs are paid £20,000 per year and 1 to be paid £90,000 for the median to be £55,000 and the mean to be £27,000!
Paul J. Russenberger, London
The results of the survey are encouraging and clearly a move in the right direction, however I am not convinced that they tell the complete story, "lies, damn lies and statistics…." for me the greater problem is the comparative benchmark, how does £55k compare to a city banker? The drive to increase the reputation of Engineering as a Profession is equally as important.
Paul Charman, Gillingham
I have never believed these salary surveys and I don’t believe this one.
Looking at The Engineer website, for engineering jobs in the UK, the largest number of vacancies (77) are in the £30-39k range. OK, most of the vacancies don’t specify the required level of professional qualification required, but they are a reasonable snap-shot of the market-place for engineers.
Only once in 35 years of working as an engineer have I been asked to participate in a salary survey, which suggests that the proportion surveyed is small. It struck me then that the responses were not verified and also that, of those selected to be asked, an unrepresentative proportion might well reply. The published results from that survey were well out of step (higher) with my own experience of the market at that time.
Ann Cooper, Stroud, Gloucestershire
It would seem that finally the salary levels are improving and that the rewards are beginning to be commensurate with the commitment, it has taken long enough. However there must be some huge salaries out there compensating for the still large numbers nowhere near these levels.
Richard Kelly, Pembroke, Pembrokeshire